daniel ek

Interview with Daniel Ek of Spotify

SpotifyHenrik Torstensson has posted a great blog post regarding a very thorough interview with Spotify’s Daniel Ek. The interview is well over one hour long and split into eight, approximately 10 minute-videos. The interview itself was done in one of the GlassHouse London events around music. The interview is done by Virginia Eastman of BBC Click.

There is a lot of insight into the Spotify business in the videos as well. Some insights include that less tha 10% of Spotify users pay for premium membership, Spotify is aiming to launch in the US late 2009 or early 2010, Spotify’s secret to success is a great product and getting the music licenses, the goal of the company; to be a platform between the artist and the fan. Have a look at the videos for more insight – these are a great catch for everyone who is hoping to understand more of the business thinking behind Spotify.
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The Future Of Spotify And Its Competition

The guest post is written by Niko Nyman, a Finnish consultant and a flash developer, with former careers in graphic design, web strategy, and music production. He has also co-written a book about social media called Yhteisöllinen media ja muuttuva markkinointi 2.0 (In Finnish). As a former professional musician Niko has a unique perspective to observe and comment on the current state of digital music industry, its latest darling Spotify and the challenges it faces against established players like Apple. You can find our previous post on Spotify here, where Daniel Ek, Spotify’s founder, discusses the rivalry with iTunes.

Spotify logo

Spotify is growing strongly, and everybody seems to be talking about it. Spotify even made the news on Finnish national TV last week! It’s David Bowie’s music like water pouring down the internets, and if Mr. Bowie’s 2002 epiphany is to be believed, the aging 20th century music industry will exist no more after three years. Three years!

(See also music like water, as popularized by Gerd Leonhard.)

So what is the future of Spotify?

It is difficult to envision any other serious competitor for Spotify but Apple. I find it quite brave of the small Spotify to go against the big Apple in the music market — and they will go against each other, even if they do not yet compete directly. I’m not claiming to have any information on either company (I haven’t even done my research, really) so this is just speculation, mainly to entertain my tired brain after work.

Here are a couple of possible scenarios for what might lie in Spotify’s future:

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Will The Future iTunes Look Like Spotify?

spotifyHere’s a Jaiku thread from last night (GMT +2) that basically outlines what the future of the worldwide music consuption might very well look like sooner than we think. The tread started when after Apple’s announcement Jaiku Co-founder Jyri Engeström posed a questing to the Jaiku community “Wondering if DRM-free iTunes will affect Spotify’s appeal”

Here’s are some of the interesting thougths and ideas that were expressed. Pay especially attention to what Jyri concludes at the end of Spotify Co-founder Daniel Ek’s answer. You can see the whole thread here.

Jyri Engeström: What does going drm-free tell us about Apple’s future strategic direction for iTunes? I don’t think it’s out of the question that the future iTunes a little way down the road will look a lot like Spotify. If that was the case, where would it leave Spotify?

Daniel Ek, Spotify Co-Founder: Thanks for caring Jyri. I just think there’s a fundamental difference right now between us. iTunes is still about ownership and will still only work out of the box with iPod. It’s not like they’ve enabled support for a bunch of new devices. We on the other hand is more about an access model and the future will tell if we will go the Apple way and have a closed system, or actually open up to a variety of use cases ;-)

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Daniel Ek, Spotify Co-Founder: @jyri: You know, a wise man talked about social objects cough ;-). We think music data is social objects, and we focus on building tools around them. We don’t necessarily want to be a social network ourselves. That’s also a hint on the future :)

Adawale Oshineye: Let’s look at the financial aspects. Spotify’s premium account is £9.99 * 12 months. Apple won’t go after Spotify’s market unless they’re making less than £120 per average user per year from Itunes.

The other big question is regarding Apple’s long term aspirations:

  • Option 1: they want lots of people (on the order of 100s of millions) buying lots of very cheap items from Apple. This has the advantage of being the same as their iPhone application strategy and lets them exploit economies of scale which would make it hard for anyone to compete with them. The bigger the market place the more customers you attract and the more customers the more likely people are to want to sell their products in your market place.
  • Option 2: they want lots of people (on the order of 10s of millions) to move to a subscription model for their music. This number is smaller than the first number as subscription requires a bigger commitment and that kind of commitment is likely to lose them some of the market. This has the benefit of a nice stable stream of revenue but fewer barriers to entry. Anyone can set up an equivalent subscription service (once they’ve got the record companies on board) and the only lock-in is the minimal length of the subscription contract.

I think the record industry would like option 2 as they’d still have the power to take away their music from the users of any subscription service that didn’t play by their rules.

I think Apple are ambitious enough to seek option 1 as it potentially gives them control over a huge market in very cheap digital content: games, apps, music, ringtones, photos, micropayments for online services, etc. The systems they would need to make this work for music and iphone apps+games can be adapted fairly easily to lots of other small transactions once they’ve got their users comfortable with paying for things with their phone. The Japanese mobile phone market is a clear example of how this scenario can play out.

Jyri Engeström: @eldsjal I think I understand your approach fairly well although it’s been a while since we discussed it — which goes to show you’re not visiting us often enough :)

As I recall pointing out before, Spotify’s success against iTunes is affected to a significant degree by how well it can exploit the fact that Apple (awkwardly) wears two hats.

To be more precise, the interests of Apple the device manufacturer and Apple the online distributor are fundamentally misaligned. It’s in the device manufacturer’s interest to keep iTunes proprietary to the iPod; whereas it’s in the online distributor’s interest to sell music through as many channels as possible.

In the end this is a business equation. As long as Apple makes more money from devices, iTunes is likely to stay proprietary. But if the iTunes store grows into the de facto cash cow, or the iPod starts to lose market share, friction is bound to arise between the two units.

It’s in Spotify’s interest, therefore, that the iPod does well but not too well. Apple has to be compelled to keep iTunes proprietary, but worldwide sales of music players has to include a significant percentage of players that do not have iTunes. Spotify then has a shot at becoming the de facto music distribution platform ‘for the rest of us’. Of course it’ll face tough competition from other proprietary and open initiatives.

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Jyri Engeström: @adewale I believe you’re correct in that there are two business models, freemium subscription & per-item sales; however, they are not mutually exclusive. Of course Apple’s not going to abandon sales of music tracks for ad-supported subscriptions. But it could easily add a free streaming/subscription mode to support its per-item sales (bait-and-switch like @oscar mentioned).

Daniel Ek, Spotify Co-Founder: +1 on @jyri :)

Jyri Engeström: @eldsjal reading the tealeaves from your “+1″: the complementary nature of subscriptions and track sales means Spotify could just as well become iTunes ;)

Not only was this an interesting conversation on the future of worldwide music consuption and the direction of Spotify is heading, but this Jaiku conversation thread is also yet another evident that Jaiku is so much more than Twitter when it comes to conversations. Twitter surely has it’s streghts, but Jaiku enables different kinds of communication. We need to have both(!), and as soon as Jaiku opens itself as well as its improved API to the public we will. Having Jaiku and Twitter sitting next to each other in a Tweetdeck would seriously change the way we communicate.